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FRANK DISCUSSION BETWEEN TWO JEWISH AND COPTIC FRIENDS

May 6, 2020

Yesterday, the 5th of May 2020, I wrote What Is the Greatest Goal of the Coptic Nationalists? And it attracted a few comments. One of the comments came from my old Jewish friend, Daniel Myerson, who has been a keen follower, and who designates himself as “A Lover of the Coptic Nation”. Lest those who like fishing in turbid water try to abuse his designation, I point to the fact that he does not designate himself as “A Lover of a Coptic State”. This is to shut these manipulators and evil-doers.

Myerson commented with a harsh criticism of the Copts, which I welcome from my Jewish friend, but which I also had to disagree with. I answered his criticism in a response to his comment. Below, I reproduce Myerson’s comment and my response to it. It’s a frank discussion between two Jewish and Coptic friends. I think it will be of some sort of interest to some; and hence my pulling it out of the comments section and reproducing it here.

Daniel Myerson 

May 5, 2020 5:59 pm

You advocate for a separate nation for the Copts if “things become intolerable” as they were under Morso. But why then will the Coptic establishment have no UNDERSTANDING OR FEELING FOR the plight of the Jews for whom things became intolerable not only in Egypt and Germany, but in nation after nation over the years? Why cancel a visit with Pence because the Jews, a Biblical people, returned home to THEIR Jerusalem after 2,000 years? Does the Coptic establishment think that by currying favor with the Palestinians, they will win a “pardon” or mercy from their tormentors? Ha! Remember the line of the prophet Isaiah:
If God is for us, who can be against us? Too many Copts hate the Jews in solidarity with
the Brotherhood… too many… it is very sad… Sign me: A LOVER OF THE COPT NATION

 

Dioscorus Boles 

May 5, 2020 6:25 pm

Dear Daniel, I don’t agree with you that the Copts hate the Jews. They may have political opinion about something but that must not be translated into hatred. The Copts in the modern age, a nation deprived of political power and oppressed by the Arab and Muslim state, cannot be free in expressing their political opinion about the politics of the Middle East and the rest of the world. They largely followed a very cautious course in all their dealings.

Some of the Copts did die in the wars with Israel, and this understandably created bad feelings. I have no illusion that some Jews were killed by bullets proceeding from arms held by Copts in these wars, and the Israelis understandably also feel bad about it. Some of the wars with Israel are clearly aggression by Israel against Egypt and some are also evidently aggressive wars by Egypt against Israel. The Arab nationalists placed us in this situation which we had no say in. I do not want to get into details of which wars were an Egyptian aggression towards Israel and which wars were Israeli aggression towards Egypt. We better forget that, particularly when we discuss Coptic matters.

You criticise the Copts who are a weak and oppressed nation that does not control its political decisions or have free expression of opinion, but you rarely criticise Israeli positions. For instance, Israeli did not show any concerns for the plight of the Copts, even when the Muslim Brotherhood was tightening its grip on Egypt, and went to glorify President Morsi when he made an agreement with Hamas to control the borders, thereby offering greater security to Israel, and Israel’s foreign minister at the time went out of his way to hail Morsi as a “statesman”, ignoring what the Copts thought of him. There is no doubt that the Israeli government then was in agreement with the Obama administration in support of the Muslim Brotherhood’s so-called democracy.

Again, you criticise the Copts harshly despite their weakness and vulnerability but what about Israel when it comes to the recognition of the Armenian genocide by the Turks? Why can’t Israel, a sovereign state and possessive of military and diplomatic power, recognise it? One would expect Israel to be the first to recognise the Armenian genocide because of its own experience of the Holocaust under the Germans. I say that because political convenience not principles sometimes dictates our behaviour.

 

10 Comments leave one →
  1. Daniel Myerson permalink
    May 6, 2020 6:41 pm

    THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY!!! I STAND CORRECTED. I SEE I DID NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT FACTS YOU MENTIONED. EVERY DAY I PRAY FOR MY COPTIC FRIENDS ANS I COULD MENTION THE NAMES OF MANY COPTIC PEOPLE I HAVE HELPED FINANCIALLY. THERE IS NOTHING MORE BEAUTIFUL THAN COPTIC CHANTS AND MY VISIT TO WADI NATTUN TRULY CHANGED MY LIFE. THE WORLD NEEDS THE SPIRITUAL TRUTHS TAUGHT BY THE COPTS NOW MORE THAN EVER. APOLOGY.

  2. Daniel Myerson permalink
    May 6, 2020 6:43 pm

    THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY!!! I STAND CORRECTED. I SEE I DID NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT FACTS YOU MENTIONED. EVERY DAY I PRAY FOR MY COPTIC FRIENDS ANS I COULD MENTION THE NAMES OF MANY COPTIC PEOPLE I HAVE HELPED FINANCIALLY. THERE IS NOTHING MORE BEAUTIFUL THAN COPTIC CHANTS AND MY VISIT TO WADI NATTUN TRULY CHANGED MY LIFE. THE WORLD NEEDS THE SPIRITUAL TRUTHS TAUGHT BY THE COPTS NOW MORE THAN EVER. APOLOGY. The Jews MUST stand by the Copts and vice versa.

    • Dioscorus Boles permalink*
      May 6, 2020 6:54 pm

      Thank you, Daniel. The world needs more people like you. Both our peoples and nations know what persecution is. It’s natural that we understand each other and sympathise with each other’s plight. We are under pressure not to say even that. But we say it!

  3. Zack permalink
    May 9, 2020 8:19 am

    I have seen some Jews spread misinformation about Copts or slander Copts. I don’t know why that is but it is a noticeable trend. One example that comes to mind is debbie schlussel who has slandered/said lies about Copts on her website. To be clear I am not saying that Mr Myerson is in that camp, I’m just reminded of this observation by this entry.

    • Dioscorus Boles permalink*
      May 9, 2020 8:56 am

      Thanks, Zack. I really don’t know Debbie Schlussel and only read about her after you have mentioned her in your comment. I could not find any writings particularly about the Copts, but I read a lot of hate towards many. She thinks, from what I could garner about her character, is that she is the centre of the world or that the universe orbits around her. There are this type of people, and while she denounces other peoples’ hate, real or imagined, towards her, she is full of hate herself, but she doesn’t see that. Fortunately, not all people are like her. I certainly don’t think Mr Myerson is of her kind.

    • Daniel Myerson permalink
      May 12, 2020 7:58 pm

      Zack! I hope u saw the apology i wrote. I had not taken into account certain facts about the coptic pope’s refusal to meet with pence (over Israel). I am a great admirer of the Coptic nation, support several poor Coptic families and consider my visit to wadi natrun one of the most meanjngful timesvin my life. I think the jews and copts must support one another.please do not put me together with any haters. Esp. Of copts. I had a question/issue. That was all.

  4. Kyrillos permalink
    May 24, 2020 2:01 pm

    Is there any historic evidence/occurrences of the terms “Coptic Jews”, “Coptic Muslims”, “Coptic pagans” and “Coptic atheists” being used, you might have heard of or are familiar with?
    Has the word “Coptic”, always been assigned to the Christians of the Nile only?
    Do you know of any historic documents about Egypt’s population before the Arab/Muslim invasion?
    And if Egypt’s population was entirely Christian(ized) and to what degree was Egypt a christian “nation” before ‘Amr bin al-Aas’ invasion of our beloved Coptia (Egypt).

    I would love to read an article (directly) tackling those previous points on this lovely blog here.
    As a Copt, -who doesn’t have full knowledge or proficiency with the Arabic language to access such records and publications often only available in Arabic-, this blog has been and is very helpful and knowledgable.
    Thanks for creating and maintaining it.
    Cheers,
    Kyrillos

    • Dioscorus Boles permalink*
      May 24, 2020 1:27 pm

      Thank you!
      The term ‘Coptic’ is an ethnico-religious concept that means the Christians from Egyptian – that’s Pharaonic – origin. The Copts are an ethnico-religious nation.
      The term cannot be used with others who don’t share in that ethnicity and religion. I guess if the Copts have a Coptic country, and let’s call it ‘Coptic State’ then other residents/citizens in it could be described as Coptic Muslims, Coptic Jews, Coptic Armenians, Coptic Greeks, etc. But as we don’t have a state, the term must be reserved for the direct descendants of the ancient Egyptians and who turned Christian early on.
      Yes, almost all the residents of Egypt at the time of the Arab invasion were Christian. There were some Jews living in Egypt then and some other religious or ethnic or both minorities but less than the Jews.

      I encourage you to advertise for this blog for it speaks on the Coptic question like no other blog does. It’s important that more Coptic youth get engaged with it. With many thanks.

      DB

      • Kyrillos permalink
        May 24, 2020 4:32 pm

        Thank you so very much for the reply and I wish to see you return back to Twitter, since your last account @J_O_C_N got suspended.

        Greetings and have a wonderful day 🌹
        Kyrillos

      • Dioscorus Boles permalink*
        May 24, 2020 6:35 pm

        Twitter is control tool not a platform for freedom of expression. And the problem is that they take reports from state agents (false accounts or what we call them in Egypt, ‘اللجان الإلكترونية’) and act on them. And they call themselves liberals!

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